[Extension] XIA 1.0

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brynn
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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:29 pm

For the dilemma of how/where to install,, perhaps you could include a readme file, or some other documentation, with instructions how to install, for the various versions of Inkscape.

Btw, I got everything back as it was originally, and Inkscape is working. I'm not sure what else to do, but I really would like to try out XIA. If I can provide any info for you, about why I can't seem to get it installed, let me know what it is or where to find it.

I did deviate from Ragnars steps slightly, so I'll try again, and do it exactly the same way. I'll let you know what happens. I can't do it right this moment, but in the next couple of days, and I'll let you know what happens.

Oops, you posted while I was typing. I'll look in the log, and post back.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:44 pm

Nothing in error log about XIA.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:59 pm

to be sure, can you start the xia standalone version (without any crash) ? You can download it here :
http://xia.dane.ac-versailles.fr/downlo ... indows.zip
(the xia.exe is just a small launcher which starts xia/xia.bat)

It is exactly the same app but in that case, you have to save the svg file somewhere with inkscape and select this saved file with xia.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:54 am

Ok, attached is a screen shot of Windows Explorer, to show how I have it set up. As far as I can tell, that's how Ragnar's instructions should result.

xiasetup.png
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Yikes! Sorry it's so large (how does that happen?).

But I still got the same crash, and had to revert, to create the screenshot

I'll try the stand alone version, and report shortly. Edit -- does it matter whether I extract to (x86) or just Program Files?

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:15 am

Well, more bad news :-(

Please see attached for error during extracting. When I try to following that link "How does this help to protect my computer?" there's no results (it starts an automatic search of Start menu > Help and Support, but produces no results -- probably a Windows bug) so I don't have any clue how to get around, or handle the error. The extract process was killed.

Note that I got the same result when I scanned with ESET, as I got when I scanned the extension (damaged archive that I reported earlier). Maybe that has something to do with this, but I don't know.

xiaerr2.png
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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:43 am

incredible ! By the way, you can start the app by starting xia/xia.bat. You don't need this xia.exe (compiled with gcc...). I will try to understand why you get such false positives. Thanks for that report. Your windows is a fortress :) Are you using windows XP ?

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:02 pm

No, it's Windows 7, 64-bit and I want to install XIA to Inkscape 0.91, 32-bit.

Yes, I do have some pretty tight security. But I would not know where to start, to sort out which feature/option/setting is triggering the security issue. But only the stand alone ZIP extract seems to be a security issue. With the EXE installer, it's just causing the immediate crash - no security blocking.

Also, I'm guessing you may have built this using an Inkscape 0.48.x version. I could try to install into 0.48.1 and/or 0.48.5, if that would provide you any helpful info. Or at least allow me to use XIA?

By the way, you can start the app by starting xia/xia.bat. You don't need this xia.exe (compiled with gcc...).


So if I go to where the EXE installer installed XIA, and open that file, it will....do what? Start the extension? Start the stand alone? Well, I can't find it anyway.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:21 pm

brynn wrote:Also, I'm guessing you may have built this using an Inkscape 0.48.x version. I could try to install into 0.48.1 and/or 0.48.5, if that would provide you any helpful info. Or at least allow me to use XIA?

not so sure now. On my win7 SP1 64 bits, xia works on inkscape 0.48.5, 0.91 32 bits and 0.91 64 bits. I have no special defense system installed on it but the windows ones.

brynn wrote:So if I go to where the EXE installer installed XIA, and open that file, it will....do what? Start the extension? Start the stand alone? Well, I can't find it anyway.

The exe installer installs only the inkscape extension. To start this extension like any other inkscape extension, you have to launch it through inkscape extension engine.
For the standalone application, you have no exe installer (http://xia.dane.ac-versailles.fr/downlo ... indows.zip). It is only a single archive containing the following :
- xia.exe (which fires false positives on your computer)
- xia
|- xia.bat <------ Just launch this file to start the xia standalone app (you will see the xia window)
|- xia.cnf
|- xia.py
|- share
|- xiaconverter
|- python27

I just scanned the xia.exe with some specific tools, nothing has been detected yet :(

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:54 pm

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "false positive". I understand it to be some kind of security scan while falsely identifies a file as containing malware, when it really doesn't. For the EXE, which you said installs the extension, there is no security issue. It installs just fine, but when I try to start Inkscape afterwards, it crashes immediately, before the Inkscape window can even be displayed.

It's extracting the ZIP file where I get the security issue (false positive). If any of my security programs was producing a false positive, the titlebar of the alert message box would contain the name of that program. And it's only identifying the source as Windows. So it seems to me to be something in Windows. It's possible I have something in Windows set some way that's catching this.

If xia.bat is in the ZIP file, and I can't extract the ZIP file, how can I get to it, to start the standalone version?

Also, I'm not familiar with the Inkscape extension engine. My understanding for installing extensions, is to put....it's either the ZIP file or PY and/or INX file, (or whatever the author of the extension says) into username/AppData/Roaming/Inkscape/extensions; or into Inkscape/share/extensions. Is there any way to access the needed files, and manually paste them into the proper folder?

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:17 pm

Hi brynn,

brynn wrote:I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "false positive". I understand it to be some kind of security scan while falsely identifies a file as containing malware, when it really doesn't. For the EXE, which you said installs the extension, there is no security issue. It installs just fine, but when I try to start Inkscape afterwards, it crashes immediately, before the Inkscape window can even be displayed.


you are right. Some scan security techniques are in a paranoid mode and fire alerts even if there is nothing wrong : a specific signature in the exe file (due to compiler), a function from windows api used in a "wrong" way, a compression algorithm usually used by malwares (considered by scanner as a kind of obfuscation)...

brynn wrote:It's extracting the ZIP file where I get the security issue (false positive). If any of my security programs was producing a false positive, the titlebar of the alert message box would contain the name of that program. And it's only identifying the source as Windows. So it seems to me to be something in Windows. It's possible I have something in Windows set some way that's catching this.
If xia.bat is in the ZIP file, and I can't extract the ZIP file, how can I get to it, to start the standalone version?


hmm, ok, you can't even extract the zip file. I did not understand. So, let's try something else. I zipped a new archive specifically for you (without the xia.exe file) ;)

http://xia.dane.ac-versailles.fr/download/xia-brynn.zip

The xia.bat will start XIA immediatly (as a standalone app), without any installation process. If it fails, then, the embedded python version is not working on your computer.

brynn wrote:Also, I'm not familiar with the Inkscape extension engine. My understanding for installing extensions, is to put....it's either the ZIP file or PY and/or INX file, (or whatever the author of the extension says) into username/AppData/Roaming/Inkscape/extensions; or into Inkscape/share/extensions. Is there any way to access the needed files, and manually paste them into the proper folder?


The last chance for us (if you want to do this stuff), is to do what we have done for xia, compiling your own portable python version from this project :

http://portablepython.com/

Just download the tool, install it on your computer. This tool will build a python version embedding needed libraries (you have to select tkinter, PIL, xml). Once it is built, just copy/paste the content of the folder Portable Python 2.7.1/App into inkscape python folder.

Then, copy/paste the content of xia share/extensions folder into the inkscape/share/extensions folder. i know, not really user friendly but it might help us to understand what is wrong.

thanks for your help.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Hhmmm....well I'm not sure if your assessment regarding my version of python will still hold true, with these results. I got the same security alert from Windows, except this time, it names xia.bat, when extracting the custom ZIP file. Or it's more likely the case that I don't understand :lol:

The steps you mentioned about python sound simple enough, and I can probably do them. But I'll wait before I start, on the outside chance this new info changes your mind.

xiaerr3.png
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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:05 am

ouch ! never seen that before :) I tried to find some hint about that. Maybe you could look at this thread :

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 1fe03f9ef8

It seems that your windows is blocking every files from internet. Just right click on the archive, -> properties and disable security blocking. Unzip the file and enjoy. MAC OS X is using such kind of strategy to "protect" the customer.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:25 pm

:o Oh! :o How very odd! Yes, that's the issue with the ZIP files. I have never seen that on a ZIP file before. When it happens in the past, it's a EXE file, and there's a hint what to do. But I've never seen it on a ZIP file!

Oh yay, happy dance! I have the stand alone version running! Now I just need to start a basic file, to get something going :D

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:06 am

I still haven't had a chance to much more than look around with XIA yet, and think about what kind of game I want to try to make. But I wanted to mention the desktop icon, which doesn't seem to have the kind of quality that other shorcut icons have. Maybe that's because it's meant to be an extension rather than standalone? But fwiw, an in the interest of promoting the program/extension, here's what I mean. Note the pixelation.

xiasc.png
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Thanks again! I keep rearranging my to-do list, to try and get this closer to the top :D

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:34 am

Hi brynn,

ok, you are right. Icon is in a very bad quality but nothing to do with the fact that it is an extension. I will fix that in the next release. Thanks for that report. Really waiting for your first game ;)

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:13 pm

It might be a while. Probably I'll make something small at first, just to show myself how everything works. Maybe something like tic-tac-toe, but we'll see.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:17 am

Ok, so I started with a simple jigsaw type of puzzle. Here's a screenshot where I'm in the middle of lining up all the pieces, and before I clip the image to each piece. I guess I'll use Make a Bitmap Copy on each piece, although that might not actually be necessary. Can XIA make any of it's products 100% vector?

Because clipping is not the same thing as cropping. And maybe the html part might use the size of each object, rather than its visible portion, when it moves them. So for example, if I clip the Tweety image with the puzzle piece, the puzzle piece might be around an inch square. But clipping the image with the puzzle piece will leave each puzzle piece the same size as the image. Technically. Right?

xia1.PNG
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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:09 am

Hi,

brynn wrote:Ok, so I started with a simple jigsaw type of puzzle. Here's a screenshot where I'm in the middle of lining up all the pieces, and before I clip the image to each piece. I guess I'll use Make a Bitmap Copy on each piece, although that might not actually be necessary. Can XIA make any of it's products 100% vector?

The html part of XIA works with bitmaps only (but the html resource is responsive). Using vector objects in html5 is too slow when you have a lot of items. So, XIA Engine converts each vector part of the image into a bitmap raster. You are right, you have to make a bitmap copy of each piece once you have clipped the image.

brynn wrote:Because clipping is not the same thing as cropping. And maybe the html part might use the size of each object, rather than its visible portion, when it moves them. So for example, if I clip the Tweety Pie image with the puzzle piece, the puzzle piece might be around an inch square. But clipping the image with the puzzle piece will leave each puzzle piece the same size as the image. Technically. Right?


No problem for XIA. XIA is working at the pixel level. If you have transparent pixels in your image, XIA will ignore them. Thus, for each piece, the area used by XIA is only the opaque part of it. And better, during resource creation, XIA Engine will crop images for you to remove useless parts of each image.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby hulf2012 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:39 am

pfautrero wrote:The html part of XIA works with bitmaps only (but the html resource is responsive). Using vector objects in html5 is too slow when you have a lot of items. So, XIA Engine converts each vector part of the image into a bitmap raster. You are right, you have to make a bitmap copy of each piece once you have clipped the image.


... I didn't expect that... You are cheating there!! :P

... But on the other hand... that way it's more compatible with other browsers and devices, isn't?

Have to try XIA... it's on my list, really

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:04 am

hulf2012 wrote:... I didn't expect that... You are cheating there!! :P


Well, in the very specific case explained by brynn, he had to convert its pieces into bitmap images (because XIA don't handle clipping yet...maybe it will in 2.0 version).
But, vector shapes are understood by XIA. If you draw shapes to define some target of your game, XIA will use them. You don't have to convert them into raster images. If you want to create interactive image, hit areas are only vector shapes in inkscape, no need to convert them into raster image by hand.

hulf2012 wrote:... But on the other hand... that way it's more compatible with other browsers and devices, isn't?


Converting vector shapes into raster images is done during resource creation automatically. Using Bitmap conversions by hand in inkscape is done only in some few cases (clipping, using text) because not yet managed by XIA.
To answer your question precisely : SVG is very well supported by browsers now. At the very beginning of XIA implementation, we have done some benchmarks about webpage performance using SVG and using Images. If you use not so much details, both are the same. But if you use a lot of details in your resource, SVG becomes really slow and unusable (too many plots to handle). And one more thing : we wanted to have the pixel precision. If you don't click on the opaque part of a detail, it won't handle your event. In this way, you can have details overlapping, you can click on the partially hidden one.

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:20 am

Just so I can understand your comments better, what do you mean by "resource"? Does "resource" mean the original artwork?

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:41 am

brynn wrote:Just so I can understand your comments better, what do you mean by "resource"? Does "resource" mean the original artwork?

no, I mean the final result, the html file in fact.

You have a lot of pieces really ! 56 pieces ? Maybe you could try with 20 pieces just for the beginning ?

Using inkscape only to build the jigsaw may not be the best option no ?

http://tuts.ahninniah.graphics/how-to-m ... -inkscape/

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:40 am

Oh man! I thought I had seen a jigsaw extension somewhere. But it's not in the Extensions Repository, so I couldn't find it. I guess it makes prettier pieces, but I managed to make a facsimile, pretty quickly and easily with Inkscape (rectangles and ellipses, Union and Difference).

So, XIA Engine converts each vector part of the image into a bitmap raster. You are right, you have to make a bitmap copy of each piece once you have clipped the image.


I'm a little confused here. If XIA converts the vector part to bitmap, then I don't need to use Make a Bitmap Copy?

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby pfautrero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:54 am

brynn wrote:I'm a little confused here. If XIA converts the vector part to bitmap, then I don't need to use Make a Bitmap Copy?


ok. I try to explain. By default, XIA is able to analyze images and vector shapes in your svg file from inkscape. But, not all inkscape functionnalities have been yet implemented in XIA :

- clipping is not handled by XIA : in this case, you have to make a copy bitmap of your clipped image (clipping will surely be managed by xia 2.0)
- texts are not handled by XIA : in this case, you have to make a copy bitmap of your text (implemented in xia 2.0)
- svg tag <a> is not yet handled by XIA. If used on an element, this one will not be analyzed by XIA (implemented in xia 2.0)
- rotations on images in inkscape are not handled by XIA : in this case, you have to rotate your image in a third part application to import the rotated image in inkscape. (implemented in xia 2.0)

In all other cases, XIA works fine with every shapes available and with images (even translated or scaled).

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Re: [Extension] XIA 1.0

Postby brynn » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:29 pm

Ok thanks, I guess that answers my immediate question.

But I'm curious about rotation not being handled by XIA. And I'm probably getting in over my head, to ask this. Why does XIA care if something has been rotated? And also, does that mean any part of the image? Or the image as a whole? Because undoubtedly I rotated things, when I was making that image of Tweety. It's been a couple of years since I drew it, and I can't remember specifically. But I use rotation commonly, in my workflow, and it's likely I used it in that image.

Well....I guess XIA must be looking in the XML/SVG code, and maybe it doesn't like that transform attribute (which apparently is at the root of several long-standing bugs). But if someone had rotated something, wouldn't Make a Bitmap Copy take away the XML? Doesn't that convert it to an image, where XIA would not see the code anymore?


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