Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

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Raspi
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Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:31 pm

When it comes to applying patterns to a path, there are multiple ways to get there, and depending on the goal, you have to use a different technique every time.

The PaP LPE and Extension distort the pattern.
Scatter does not distort but is less editable.
Markers stay undistorted but are a bit time consuming to set up.

In AI you can define what portion of a pattern (called Art Brush in AI) gets stretched or not.
I dont see any way to imitate that in IS, although it is already partly present in the Scatter Extension.

So why is there no Scatter LPE ?
Bending a pattern live without distorting would make a great addition to the existing LPEs.
Or is that not possible ?

tylerdurden
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:39 am

If there isn't a wishlist post on the bug list, it's not likely that a developer will consider working on it. Features only get developed when someone feels interested enough to put the time and effort into it.
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Raspi
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Raspi » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:43 pm

tylerdurden wrote:If there isn't a wishlist post on the bug list, it's not likely that a developer will consider working on it. Features only get developed when someone feels interested enough to put the time and effort into it.

Before i can make a feature request i need to define what the feature is supposed to do.
Im collecting ideas and data with this thread.

Dont you think its odd that there are three different approaches to the same effect, each of them with specific advantages.
I'd guess if there was an easy way of unifying these three methods, we would already have it.

Especially Markers seem to be an exception and im wondering if theres any way to make a specific part of a path stretch less than the rest.

Lazur
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Lazur » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:04 pm

A scatter lpe would be nice.

Here was a similar topic. Sadly the there mentioned atomium topic got deleted . It was about this image.

Raspi
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Raspi » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:07 pm

Lazur wrote:A scatter lpe would be nice.

Here was a similar topic. Sadly the there mentioned atomium topic got deleted . It was about this image.

Okay, so im wondering, mabe the Pap LPE just needs an option to not distort the pattern.
Or even better, control the level parts of the pattern are stretched.

And if i understand the wreath-art you linked to, a way of spreading the pattern is also needed.

Lazur
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Lazur » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:20 pm

As far as I understand the pattern along path is all about stretching a basic shape. In that vein partial "no distorting" can't fit with the concept.
The sectioning of the pattern, for using only a part of it or a way to offset it by a phase sounds more doable with the current base.

To me a scatter which doesn't distort sounds a completely different effect. Unifying the two would get way more complicated.
Can you draw a mockup image of such an lpe in action? To understand the design goal better.

Raspi
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Raspi » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:41 pm

Lazur wrote:As far as I understand the pattern along path is all about stretching a basic shape. In that vein partial "no distorting" can't fit with the concept.
The sectioning of the pattern, for using only a part of it or a way to offset it by a phase sounds more doable with the current base.

Im borrowing this idea from AI.
As you can see here, AI can define what part of a pattern is stretched:
https://youtu.be/yi5-J5gEMQM?t=3m20s

But maybe that just isnt necessary, as Inkscape has a different approach to making the flower ornament used in the video.
You would just Bend the stem and make the tip a seperate object.

In AI the Brushtool can also be used like a stamp, thats already covered by the Spray Tool in Inkscape.

Moini
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Moini » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:17 am

The PaP LPE creates a single path object, where stroke and fill are identical to the underlying path, while Scatter would put a group of objects, or an object, or even alternating objects onto a path.

That said, +1 for the Scatter LPE or improvement of Scatter extension, so:
- it can be possible to define a distance between 'anchor points' on the path, in units or relative to size of object to be arranged.
- and alternatively, it can be possible to define the number of objects that will be aligned with the path at a regular distance.

(and then there's the PaP extension, too - which also distorts, but has two different distortion modes. It can work with groups, too.)
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Raspi
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby Raspi » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:55 am

I think the defining phase is shaping up nicely, but now im having a hard time with the exact wording for the feature request.

What we are looking for is a Live Path Effect that distributes a pattern(path) along a helper path without distorting the pattern.
Also needed is an option to offset the pattern along the path with varying values and a way to vary the size of the pattern.
Both in a defined set of values, plus an option for random values.

Maybe like the functionality of the Spray Tool, but along a path like PaP.

It would also be nice to combine this Scatter LPE with the Pencil Tool for a live drawing effect.

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brynn
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Re: Why isnt there a Scatter LPE ?

Postby brynn » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:58 pm

Did you ever make a report on LP?

There's been a discussion on the mailing list asking for some similar functionality. I'm not sure why I didn't see this topic here, but it reminded me of this topic there: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31669, where Jabier already picked it up for a new LPE.

The reason they sound similar in my mind, is just substitute whatever the "pattern" is like in PAP, or the copied/cloned object for scatter - substitute that for the dash, and it seems like the same thing to me. The pattern or the copied/cloned object could be a dash, or dot or plus or check or a much more complex object like flower, star, whatever, etc.. Objects of the same width, (whether it's a flower or a short line/dash) with spaces of equal distance between, following a skeleton path. The skeleton path can change length and shape, and the number of objects changes to match, while keeping the spaces equal between them.

Actually I think would be nice to have an option where the space between can change or the number of objects can change. One or the other, but not both can happen on any give path. The path gets longer, and the user can choose either keep the same number of objects, and make the space between longer; or the space between stays the same, but more objects (and more spaces) are added as the path gets longer.

Above, someone asked this
Especially Markers seem to be an exception and im wondering if theres any way to make a specific part of a path stretch less than the rest.


Node sculpting does that. Currently node sculpting creates kind of a bell curve array. But in older versions, it was more like rubberband behavior, where on the end that's getting dragged, the space between nodes gets longer and longer, and the other end that's not moving, the space between is smaller and smaller. I think it would be nice to have a choice, especially because I have absolutely no use for a bell curve array of nodes, but the progressively longer or shorter, I always need that! And maybe there would even be a different kind of array (actually I'm not sure if "array" is the proper term). I never have gotten around to making a feature request. Node sculpting works by selecting multiple nodes, hold Alt key, drag one of the selected nodes.

If node sculpting could somehow be applied to a Scatter type of LPE, along with options to keep the spacing even, and along with option to make spaces larger while keeping same number of objects, and the opposite, keep spaces the same and add more objects. All without distortion. Add in options to set the space distance. And this is one super fantastic feature!


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