Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

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Jose_Vas1
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Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby Jose_Vas1 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:31 am

When I'm working with a path it doesn't matter if I used the bezier :tool_pen: tool or made it from a circle :tool_ellipse: or a square :tool_rectangle: I always get a node duplicated under another node and it very annoying :evil: can someone shed some light on how to take care of this issue?

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druban
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby druban » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:17 pm

you should provide an example file (preferred) or at least a screenshot because without some evidence we cant offer much help!
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brynn
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby brynn » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:14 pm

Yes, without the file, we can't be sure in your case. But I thought I'd offer a couple of ways that I can think of.

With the Pen/Bezier tool, if you either double-click, or click twice to set a node (accidentally or on purpose) instead of clicking just once, it will set 2 nodes which are either precisely on top of each other, or very, very close together.

Using tools like Paint Bucket and Calligraphy tool often results in "double nodes". There's really no way to avoid it, because it has more to do with how the tool works, than how the user uses the tool. Also in this category, is changing a shape (circle, star, rectangle, spiral) or text to a path, using Path menu > Object to Path.

Or there are several more things for which Object to Path is useful, which could result in double nodes. In particular, using the Pen or Pencil tool in Spiro Spline mode, and then converting the results to a regular path, I've found 20 or 30 nodes on one spot!

Path menu > Trace Bitmap will often result in more than 1 node in the same place.

I can't say I've ever seen a double node from converting a simple circle or rectangle to path....or star or spiral either. But other things like text, yes.

How can the double nodes be fixed?

Sometimes, it's simple to just delete one of the nodes. But often we find the the path gets distorted, either a little or a lot, when one of the nodes is deleted. So another technique is to select them both, and click "Join selected nodes" button. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I shouldn't work at all, and I have no idea why it does sometimes. But sometimes it does.

The most foolproof way I've found to deal with double nodes is, after selecting them, to click "Delete segment between 2 selected nodes", and then click "Join selected nodes" button. Note that if the nodes really are precisely on top of each other, there will be no distortion of the path. But if they are very close together, and you're at a high zoom, you might notice a little change in the path.

If there are more than 2 nodes in one place, then first I click "Join selected nodes". If there are more than 3 nodes (like the 20 or 30 I mentioned before), I might click it a few times, to join as many as possible easily. For the 20 or 30, you might need to delete the segment between 2 of them and then join them, a few times, before you are finally down to just one node.

Note that 20 or 30 is an extreme example, which I've only seen with spiro spline mode.

Jose_Vas1
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby Jose_Vas1 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:25 am

Hey I've just attached an image and svg, in this example the number 8 was originally in 4" and when I shrunk it there was a node that appeared under another node on the top left, but to be clear this is something that happens even without resizing the image, there are times when I make a circle and then I turn from object to path to modify it, it starts out with 4 nodes and out of nowhere a node appears under another. I know I can delete it but when I have 50 or 60 nodes or more and a few duplicated nodes that I have to reshape it because it gets distorted it gets annoying.

Other times I delete the node and unselect the path do something else, when I select it again the node is there again.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2017-08-25 at 6.00.16 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-08-25 at 6.00.16 PM.png (72.85 KiB) Viewed 530 times
8.svg
(18.76 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

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brynn
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby brynn » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:34 pm

I can't reproduce this problem with the 8.svg file. There's no way for a path with a certain number of nodes, to suddenly have more nodes, just by resizing or scaling the path.

Likewise, if you edit a path, deselect it, do something else, and re-select it, there's no way it can have more nodes than it did before (unless the "something else" was to add more nodes you didn't realize the path was still selected.

It's possible that you decreased the size of the path so much, that 2 nodes which were close, got to be so close that they seem to be on top of each other.

But what's more likely, at least with the SVG file you shared, is that you had a different path selected than what you thought. There are a lot of duplicates there, all with the same fill and stroke, with very similar offsets. So it would be really easy to not select the one you meant to select.

I did explain earlier how you can get rid of extra nodes without distorting the path.

You might consider temporarily giving each duplicate a different fill color, so it's easier to tell them apart from each other. Although that won't help if you work in outline mode.

If you'd like to share a different file, or tell us specific steps to see the extra nodes in this file, we'll be glad to explain it for you. But definitely, paths cannot acquire extra nodes while you aren't looking. Although I realize there can be times when it seems like that happens, haha!

Jose_Vas1
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby Jose_Vas1 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:32 pm

Hey Brynn I really appreciate the time, and I totally understand everything you've explained I guess my computer has a voodoo spell or something, I'll see if I can make a video sometime soon to show you what happens, Thanks again!

tylerdurden
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby tylerdurden » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:34 am

brynn wrote: There's no way for a path with a certain number of nodes, to suddenly have more nodes, just by resizing or scaling the path....

Likewise, if you edit a path, deselect it, do something else, and re-select it, there's no way it can have more nodes than it did before ...

But definitely, paths cannot acquire extra nodes while you aren't looking. Although I realize there can be times when it seems like that happens, haha!...

ORLY...?

Image

@Jose,

Try changing the setting in Preferences>Transforms to "Preserved".
Preferences_(Shift+Ctrl+P)_2017-08-26_10-28-28.png
Preferences_(Shift+Ctrl+P)_2017-08-26_10-28-28.png (19.92 KiB) Viewed 480 times


Seems to retain the original number of nodes here. (Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06)
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Moini
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby Moini » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:36 am

This is different in 0.91, even with transforms set to 'optimized' - I cannot imagine that this is an intentional change, as it can break your drawing... !
It does not happen if you use the resize handles of the node tool, btw. (activate them in the node tool's tool controls bar, hit Ctrl+A and resize object)

Is there a bug report for this?
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Moini
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby Moini » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:51 am

Something doesn't work? - Keeping an eye on the status bar can save you a lot of time!

Inkscape FAQ - Learning Resources - Website with tutorials (German and English)

tylerdurden
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby tylerdurden » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:27 am

Replicated in WinXP, Inkscape .91:

Image
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

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brynn
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Re: Why do I keep getting a node on top of another node?

Postby brynn » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:53 am

tylerdurden wrote:
brynn wrote: There's no way for a path with a certain number of nodes, to suddenly have more nodes, just by resizing or scaling the path....

Likewise, if you edit a path, deselect it, do something else, and re-select it, there's no way it can have more nodes than it did before ...

But definitely, paths cannot acquire extra nodes while you aren't looking. Although I realize there can be times when it seems like that happens, haha!...

ORLY...?


Well I apologize if I was wrong about that. In 10 years of learning and using Inkscape, and helping other people learn, I've never seen that happen, or heard of it.

Are you suggesting that this transform attribute option can be responsible for the "double nodes" which the user is complaining about? Or you're just contradicting my blanket statement?

I don't know what the default is for that option. But I would not have suspected this user had changed it. Mine is set for Optimized, but there's a good chance I changed it myself, trying to avoid those annoying bugs related to the transform attribute.

Also, there's another reason which people sometimes don't want the transform attributes in their file. I don't remember the reason, because the whole transform attribute is a bit over my head. So I haven't paid close attention.

But TD, I certainly would encourage you to report it, if you think you've found a bug. I don't understand it well enough to attempt to report it myself. But if nodes are actually being added or removed from paths, related to that option, I would certainly would want to "kick it upstairs" to the developers as a possible bug.

What happens in the XML when that happens? I can't reproduce it here. But I would be curious to see the XML, and watch it change when the path is scaled. Do you actually see more node coordinates added and removed (to the d or path data attribute)?


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