Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

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asme
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Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:52 am

Hello,

TL;DR: I just made a video fully explaining what I meant here: https://vid.me/ol24C

Am new in the Inkscape world, I am a Fireworks user and decided to give Inkscape a try.
Things look really different, but that is expected so am still learning the Inkscape way of doing things.
However, there is something, (two actually) that I just can't seems to understand why the team decided to go that road, that is, the way you select objects.

Out of EVERY single graphic software I've ever seen, Inkscape is the only one where you have to select the whole objects to select them. Yeah, I know you can hold Alt and draw a line to include objects you want select (Touch Select?) which by the way is a really nice approach but It still slow & unnatural way of selecting in my opinion. I'd rather hold hold shift and select manually objects one by one than holding Alt and drawing.

http://i.imgur.com/gzoccNZ.png

So is there a reason behind this decision?
Last edited by asme on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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brynn
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:26 am

Do you mean that when you click on one object, it selects them all? That probably means that they are in a Group. There could be other reasons, but that's the most common reason.

Object menu > Ungroup, or there's a button on the command bar, or there's a key shortcut.

Inkscape does have something like a lasso select. A little known trick -- hold down the Alt key and drag through all the objects you want to select. But most people use the rectangular selection box. Edit - oops :oops:

Edit
If that doesn't work, please show us the SVG file. Or if you're ambitious, select it and look at the status bar. You might figure it out yourself :D

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:02 am

Touch select is often operating system dependent. Since Inkscape is cross platform & FOSS, touch select is not high on the wishlist.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Moini
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby Moini » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:06 am

Shift + click should be working as expected. If it doesn't, there's either an issue with your mouse or keyboard, with the image (e.g. a group), or some bug in the software that makes the click-to-select feature not work (I've just heard about this weird bug somewhere else - was that you, or someone else?).
Something doesn't work? - Keeping an eye on the status bar can save you a lot of time!

Inkscape FAQ - Learning Resources - Website with tutorials (German and English)

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:11 am

I just made a video fully explaining what I meant here: https://vid.me/ol24C

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:18 am

Moini wrote:Shift + click should be working as expected. If it doesn't, there's either an issue with your mouse or keyboard, with the image (e.g. a group), or some bug in the software that makes the click-to-select feature not work (I've just heard about this weird bug somewhere else - was that you, or someone else?).



Hi,
No it wasn't me, and I don't have problem with shift and click, I already mentioned that option in my first post, did you read it?
I just update it with a video.

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:24 am

tylerdurden wrote:Touch select is often operating system dependent. Since Inkscape is cross platform & FOSS, touch select is not high on the wishlist.


Excuse me but what do you call Touch Select? Is it holding Alt and selecting the objects ?

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:25 am

I understood your issue.

Some OS and applications will only touch select R->L, others ( like you show) will touch select both directions ...

It is not a priority for the developers.
Last edited by tylerdurden on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:25 am

Touch-select is if the drag-selection box/marquee or lasso touches an object, rather than surround.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:37 am

Here is Affinity Designer (on Windows), it is an option in Preferences:

Image
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:43 am

Here's Fusion 360 (windows)...

Image

Note the difference between R->L drag and L->R drag.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:51 am

tylerdurden wrote:I understood your issue.

Some OS and applications will only touch select R->L, others ( like you show) will touch select both directions ...

It is not a priority for the developers.


Nah, I don't think you understand the issue, It's not about the direction, the direction doesn't matter at all for both software.

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:55 am

[quote="tylerdurden"]Here is Affinity Designer (on Windows), it is an option in Preferences:

Yeahhh, You got the idea, Unfortunately, am using Linux, And it isn't available for Linux :|
Last edited by asme on Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:02 am

tylerdurden wrote:Touch-select is if the drag-selection box/marquee or lasso touches an object, rather than surround.


Well the thing is that is a feature that should be available from the very "FIRST pre alpha" build of any graphic software.
I really hope they'll soon have time to add it.
If only we at least had an extesion that could do that. :cry:

tylerdurden
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:43 am

Not a deal-breaker in my book.

You can add your "Me too" support for the feature here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/418485
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:31 pm

tylerdurden wrote:Not a deal-breaker in my book.

You can add your "Me too" support for the feature here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/418485



Yeah, I know all Inkscape users can probably deal with that.

I don't think the problem you describe in Launchpad is the same with this one.
Can you please make a gif explaining the issue you describe in Launchpad?

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brynn
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:52 pm

asme wrote:Well the thing is that is a feature that should be available from the very "FIRST pre alpha" build of any graphic software.

Well, that would be your opinion, which obviously the Inkscape developers have not shared.

I think you addressed the "bottom line" in your first message. When you use a different program, you have to be prepared to learn to do things differently.

I can see that this technique is apparently a big part of your workflow. But honestly, in 10 years of learning and using Inkscape, and helping other people learn in this forum, I've never heard of this!

Personally, at best, I would not have use for it, because there are already so many ways to select. Have you seen the new Objects dialog? (well, everything is new for you, but it's a relatively new feature) You can select things on the canvas by clicking the object's entry in the dialog (it's the object's id)! At worst, I would probably find it annoying. But as long as it were optional, I wouldn't object to having it available.

It seems like the Alt + drag/touch technique is not that much different though. Did you really try it? Hold the Alt key, and drag the mouse so that it touches one and then the other rectangle. In your video, you already have the mouse in the perfect position. And you already are using the same drag that would be needed. Just add in the Alt key, and it should be essentially the same.

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:32 am

brynn wrote:It seems like the Alt + drag/touch technique is not that much different though. Did you really try it? Hold the Alt key, and drag the mouse so that it touches one and then the other rectangle. In your video, you already have the mouse in the perfect position. And you already are using the same drag that would be needed. Just add in the Alt key, and it should be essentially the same.


Thanks you for your detailed answer,

The Alt+drag/touch is as I said the closest to that "easy" way of selecting That's the one am currently using actually. But the problem is, first, you have hold Alt, Second, you have to draw/touch every object you wish to select which makes it slow and unintuituve
Image

conormcg
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby conormcg » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:19 pm

Thanks for the answer, I was having a similar problem.

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ianp5a
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby ianp5a » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:51 pm

asme wrote:Out of EVERY single graphic software I've ever seen, Inkscape is the only one where you have to select the whole objects to select them.
So is there a reason behind this decision?

There are, in fact, many programs that default to the same selection way that Inkscape does.
The rectangular "Trap", marquee or rubber band selection, can have several variants:
- Inside Trap (Inkscape default)
- Inside + Crossing Trap. (like your request)
- Outside Trap (selects everything outside the trap area)
- Outside + Crossing Trap.
There are other types, such as polygon trap and freehand trace Trap (Inkscape "Alt" mode)

Some software let's you set this in Settings. Others have buttons or keys to change it on the fly.
CATIA for example has buttons:
select.JPG
select.JPG (11.4 KiB) Viewed 664 times

A default is important. And Inkscape would either default to Inside or Inside+crossing. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Neither is right or wrong.

Often drawings have large background shapes that you don't want to include in the selection, when you want to select some foreground details. So the Inkscape way seems logical when working on complex drawings. Powerpoint, CorelDraw, Xara and others came to the same conclusion.

Basically, once you are used to working that way, there is no problem. Yes it might be nice to have more selection options. But changes to the software should not be based on what someone was "used to doing" in another program. In the Adobe Illustrator Forum you will find someone used to Macromedia Freehand, asking the exact opposite to you. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/856221

asme
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby asme » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:04 am

ianp5a wrote: ...


Thank you very much for the detailed answer.
You're right, about the choice Inkscape made by default as I sometime prefer that way of selecting when I have backgrounds I don't want select, however, every time am in such situation, I just lock backgrounds like shapes.

But as you said, It would be really awesome to have the option to chose. Hopefully this won't be hard to implement in future version of Inkscape.

conormcg
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby conormcg » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:12 pm

Thanks for sharing the video:) It made it much easier for me.

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ianp5a
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby ianp5a » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:13 pm

asme wrote:But as you said, It would be really awesome to have the option to chose. Hopefully this won't be hard to implement in future version of Inkscape.

How about helping Inkscape, and requesting it?
go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape

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brynn
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby brynn » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:42 pm

I think someone already made that request, up above.

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ianp5a
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Re: Why Inkscape don't select object easily?

Postby ianp5a » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:49 pm

brynn wrote:I think someone already made that request, up above.

If you meant this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/418485
it is a defect in the touch select, and appears to be different from the OP request here.


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