Draw a Book or Books

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spaventapasseri
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby spaventapasseri » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:39 am

New wip
@Brynn as you told me I put the cross little smaller and started with a couple of blur around

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:52 am

Oh, those pages are exquisite!
You know, I think I wasn't sure about the realism, because it already looked pretty real, in the first wip. So there might not be much more work to do? Is there going to be a 2nd book too now?

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby spaventapasseri » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:48 pm

brynn wrote:Oh, those pages are exquisite!

thanks :) ,
I was thinking to add another book and a table maybe.
Actually I don`t think to put more details, maybe I will change the text Holy Bible on it, because I don`t know if put more blurs or light can be a better solution.
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:05 pm

No, I don't think the book needs much more either. Not the book itself. But I think some cast shadows on whatever surface you plan to provide (such as a table).
I wanted to ask about the cross on the book, and maybe on the rosary. They look pretty much identical. Are they made to be similar in real life, like a set. Is the cross on the book metallic? It has the appearance perhaps of being a light colored leather. But if it's metallic, perhaps some sort of highlights or reflections? And same for rosary. Also, the cross on the book would realistically cast a very narrow shadow on the book....unless the light is coming from the same place as we are when viewing it. In that case, I don't think we would see the shadows on the other side. Because of the appearance of the pages, it does look like the light is coming from our position when viewing it.

Yes, I think a table would be nice. I can even imagine some lace on the table (although lace would be incredibly difficult to depict, at least it would be for me). Or even a wooden chair or stool??

I like the "HOLY BIBLE" text/font, but maybe not white, maybe an off-white or cream or light tan?? I'm not sure without doing the experimenting myself, lol.

Well anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:52 pm

Ok folks, I'm getting very close to being finished. Now at this late date, because the Inkscape Wiki site now shows no green, and it doesn't seem to be a popular color for my book, I'm going to change it, probably to a dark red, maroon maybe, we'll see. That also means changing the color of the title on the spine, and maybe the half-leather cover too. Fortunately, changing colors is easy with Inkscape! (Although I don't look forward to selecting down below so many objects by now, lol!)

After the last wip, there was a suggestion for more fake pages. Did I add to many?
As for the leather filter, that might not make the final version. I still have so much to learn about making filters. I can usually tweak them, if they're fairly close, but not always, and definitely not make my own....yet.

I've given the table some character now. I tried to make it look like an old wood (walnut), and was hoping to depict some wood grain. But it hasn't turned out as I had hoped. I'll still probably fool around with it some more though. I do plan to blur everything slightly, to make the edges look worn and rounded (like the front edge of the leg in the front). I'll do that last though, because when things are blurred, I have a hard time seeing and finding things, lol. I also just realized that I need to add a back leg, showing just under the table. Is there too much red in the wood color?

I fixed the right-most leg....or tried to. I think it does look better than the last wip. Part of the problem was the side of the table, that shows under the books. It was too high. But I think I have it in the right place now. I'm also going to draw in the.....rats, I can't think of the right word. There's a floor lamp whose shade is just out of the page at the top right corner, so I'm going to draw in the....all I can think of is pole. Anyway, I still need to draw that in, and add some sort of glow from the lamp, since it's so close. Plus a wall along the left side of the table, and a corner and another wall.

I'm still plagued by the not exactly right perspective. I think the table is right on. But the books are not. Fixing the books is out of the question at this point, so I'm thinking of making the table match the books, even if it will be a little "off"....the table will be easier to tweak. Do you all have any suggestions about fixing the perspective? (Besides starting over, lol!!)

As always, comments are most welcome :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:41 am

Nothing to say, you are doing great! Will you post a bigger picture?
( i wouldn't change that green, i love it, it's perfect )
I'm just someone who likes to create.

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby spaventapasseri » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:54 pm

@brynn always better ;)

I`m not sure about the table`s leg. In this moment it looks like the book is resting half on the table and half on the leg.
Have you tried to reduce it? I think is still to high(in my opinion)

Have a look to this example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l8ToJIFQwo
The final table is in perspective in two points. If you compare with yours, the third leg on the right is smaller,



I think you need to use one vanishing point in a more distance and try to do the table more long than now.
You can follow this example maybe can help.
http://www.explore-oil-pastels-with-robert-sloan.com/perspective.html

In this picture you can see the vanishing point for the leg on the F2 Point if you compare with yours maybe you will find the solution.
Image


For me you need to draw a long table in perspective and later on put the book on the right corner. I think is more clean and easy for you.
For me the perspective for the book is perfect.

ps. thanks for your advice on my book , but right now I` m stopped I`m on holidays ;) , when I`ll coming back I will follow your suggestion
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:47 pm

Hhm, well strange as it may sound, I did not use the 3D box nor any vanishing points. I drew the perspective just by seeking the right balance for my eye. Although, I have looked at your examples, and certainly will use a vanishing point in the future, for drawing perspective. Thank you for those references. I did use the same ratio in computing the sizes of things, and I used a grid to make sure I drew the vertical lines properly and the proper sizes. That was the advantage of using a square table, is that I could use the same ratio for everything.

Have a look to this example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l8ToJIFQwo
The final table is in perspective in two points. If you compare with yours, the third leg on the right is smaller,

Well the table in the video is twice as long as wide. Mine is square. So the leg must be bigger than in the video. Actually I'm thinking I've made it a little too thin. In reality, the table is a little unusual. The legs are perfectly vertical with very little tapering, less than what I've shown. I thinned them quite a bit after the first comment on that leg (earlier in the thread), thinking that might help. But it appears not to have helped, so I'll probably put it back like before. I think what is needed to make that leg look like part of the table, is proper shading under the books.

I just realized that I have the color wrong on the side of the table that shows under the books. Perhaps after I have fixed the color, I can tweak the shadows and highlights to make it look better. I've double checked the ratios on the table many times, and I think if I removed the books, the table would appear as expected. It has so many objects now, that it would be hard to actually remove the books to show you. But I might try. Maybe I can put the books in another layer to show the table alone. We'll see :D

Yes, I'll post a 100% size when I'm finished. Because it's so big, I've only been showing 50% screenshots, and the last one I think was 65%. Interesting, so I have one suggestion to change the green (earlier in thread), and one to keep it. Keeping it will mean a lot less work....plus I like it myself, lol! I keep trying to find a better leathery color, for the leather part. On my model, it's actually an off-white/beige-ish color...we'll see what happens.

Thanks for your comments :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:54 am

Yikes!
I lost the coffee stains, lol :lol:
All these days since I posted the last wip, something just wasn't looking right, and I just couldn't put my finger on it (English phrase for not being able to locate something at the present moment). Ah, I think I moved them down below temporarily, and promptly forgot about them lol. Image

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:00 am

ahah seems like no one noticed it, Brynn. :D
New shot, not finish yet.. A dictionary i have, with red/orange cover and old look pages.
And surprise! No blur, here. ( yeah i did miss it! :lol: ) Trying to make things more crispy.. Thoughts?

[Picture removed]
Last edited by RM. on Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:16 am

Interesting perspective!
I like it so far, and can't think of any comments.....well maybe one. It seems to be quite flat. I know that some well-used books often do open to be flat. So it may be that, or you just haven't drawn in the depth yet? It looks good :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:13 am

Ok, here we have the last (hopefully) work in progress, and the 1st at full size. I thought I would be finished at this point. But when I could not get the walls and the corner to look right, I realized that I should be seeing some floor at the bottom. The real table has a bunch of stuff behind it, so I can't actually see the floor. But if I moved the stuff, it would certainly be visible. Since the real floor is hardwood, I won't be trying to do that realistically. It would take too much more time, and I'm ready to move on to the favorite cartoon image challenge. So maybe I'll go for carpet.....well, or maybe I could simulate some kind of wood. Mine has much too much detail, but I guess some hardwood floors have more of a smooth texture.

Image
direct link: http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3274/books2wip5.png and to see that full size, click on the image to zoom to full size

I did make a couple of changes to the color. I tweaked the tan color of the leather on the green book, along with the red strips across the spine. I don't think I will be able to make a leather filter after all.

Anyway, comments welcome. I think I will have to learn some lessons from R.M about blurring, to make the corner work properly. OH! I just now see what I need to do, to make the corner work better!! Yay! But still, some blurring too. :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:54 am

I've tried before to make wood, it's not impossible but it takes a lot of time. You can always use a ready texture, or do you want everything vector?

brynn wrote:I think I will have to learn some lessons from R.M about blurring

:lol: Imagine myself being an inkscape teacher.. hilarious!

You know, i've added new shading to the pages.. i like more the flat look. :lol:

[Updating picture]
Last edited by RM. on Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:41 pm

You know, i've added new shading to the pages.. i like more the flat look.

Yes, the new shading works! It makes the flat look work better. I've done lot of photocopying from books, so I know that some books actually do open flat. Nice work. Will you do anything with the surface on which the book lies?

I was just reviewing my last message, and I see that my image is not actually the full size that I see in Inkscape window. After a bit of investigation, I realized that I accidentally exported at 72 dpi. I had changed it to help someone on the forum troubleshoot, and thought I had changed it back. So I'll replace it with the full size, as soon as I post this.

EDIT
Hhhhm, still not the full size. The real image is 700 x 1000 px in Inkscape. Ok, it looks like ImageShack resized it for me. Let's see if I can override it....brb

EDIT #2
Ok, now it's the real full size, but the forum software clips off the right side. So I've provided a direct link.

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:05 am

brynn wrote:Will you do anything with the surface on which the book lies?

I was trying to do some pictures and text, too small, they didn't work. Its looks good without so.. :)
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:04 am

Ok Friends, here we have my final version, unless someone points out something that I need to fix, lol.

Image
direct link: http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8451 ... efinal.png then click on the image to zoom to full size.

So I managed to create a reasonable likeness of the hardwoood floor. In reality, there would be more flecks and lines (rings and rays of the wood), and in general, better detail. But since my goal in this project is the books, I think (hope) the lack of detail in the floor does not detract from the rest of the image. My apartment is part of a 107 year old house. The walls are really a very roughly textured plaster, rather than more modern drywall (wallboard, sheetrock, whatever you call it). But it would make for a whole other challenge/contest, to realistically depict it. So I'm going with drywall :D.

The only thing that doesn't quite work for me, is the glow from the lamp. I did add a glow, but can't seem to make it cast the right light on the books and table. So it's barely noticeable right now. I'm wondering, since I've made the walls kind of a yellowish sand color, and since indoor light tends to be yellowish, whether the reflection on the spine of the cover of the blue book, needs to be more yellowish (i.e. - greener). I think that might help, but it's the leather part of the green book, that seems to need some indication of the glow from the lamp. If I had been able to make a leather filter, I was hoping to add the specular light to simulate that glow. But alas, the filter editor remains a puzzle for me (despite many hours work trying).

Maybe whiter walls?

Any other comments welcomed as well :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:23 pm

Can't help with the lights, i always struggle myself with them. There are two things out of places in my opinion.
One. The wood is fine, however there is one dark gradient that doesn't look good.
Two. The.. pole? I don't know, seems like the illustration doesn't need it.
You shouldn't worry too much though, books are great and that was the goal of the mission! :lol:
My favourite book is.. yes the dictionary of inkscape!! Where can i buy it? :D
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:25 am

Do you mean that really dark sliver of wood on the floor?
Actually, the rest of the floor should be more like that little darker area, and I'm sorely tempted to work on it some more. Those colors are so subtle, and so tricky to get right. At first I thought drawing the floor would take more time, but getting those colors right is really more time consuming!

You know I've just started to work on a favorite cartoon for spaventapasseri's challenge/contest. And I'm starting on another project as well. Actually the cartoon is going very fast, due to the simplicity of the cartoon I've chosen. So don't be surprised if I either need a break from working on other images, including the new cartoon, and put some more work into the floor and maybe walls/corner, lol!

Also, I still have the beginnings of a drawing of books, where the green book is open. I wonder....would it be fairly easy to copy

Thanks for your comments RM. Thanks for everyone's comments :D

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby lady_mei » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:55 pm

Great job you guys. Okay here's mine, I am stuck actually I don't know what else to do with it. . My model is an 1893 book, which sits beside my laptop along with my 5th impression of Lord of the Rings. I would love to draw the latter book unfortunately it has so many details, I guess I lack the confidence to try drawing it. Anyway, I will appreciate any feedback/comments/critiques perhaps :)

Image

Thanks!

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brynn
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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby brynn » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:25 pm

Hi lady_mei,
You definitely have some budding skills. That's impressive for a first try -- especially the pages!
I would make a suggestion about the title, and other text on the spine. You can use a tool called Envelope Deformation, to make the text appear to be on the same plane as the spine. Look for Path menu > Path Effects Editor > Envelope Deformation. For instructions on using that tool, here's a link to that section of the Guide: http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL ... ation.html. If you still have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

(It might actually be more proper to use the Perspective extension. But in this case, I don't think perspective is a huge issue. Instead of using either the Envelope or Perspective tools, you might even be able to fake it by using Rotate and Skew with the Selection tool.) (See how much you can learn?!)

Completely off topic, but it sounds like you might be a book collector?

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby lady_mei » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:44 am

Wow! Thanks, Brynn. This is one of my dilemmas trying to align my text on to the plane. The information you provided is indeed helpful. I am glad I post what I've created, if I haven't I wouldn't even know that the envelope deformation tool existed. Anyway, I don't mind your question-I am fascinated with antiquarian books and rare books (and I do buy them when I think they're interesting). Also, I am a voracious reader, but I don't consider myself as a book collector :)

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Re: Draw a Book or Books

Postby RM. » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:22 pm

Nice try Lady, add more shadings. :)
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