announcing a new Inkscape website!

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brynn
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announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby brynn » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:12 am

Hi Friends,
After a lot of work, and learning new stuff, I'm finally opening the new Inkscape website that I've been working on: Inkscape Community! Please feel free to visit and have a look around, and register, if you like.

The main focus of the site, is Inkscape tutorials. But there's also a forum, and I'm planning to add a gallery asap.

All best :D
brynn

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Inkspots
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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Inkspots » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:09 pm

Congrats on getting the new website up and running.
:)

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Lazur URH
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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Lazur URH » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:49 am

Congrats on that!
Nice collection of tutorials and nice colour scheme.
Was that the project that needed the menu icons?

Also, what are your future plans with it?
How would you keep the focus on the tutorials, and how you see the differences with this forum?
Is this a getaway, to a more organised forum that competes, or do you see your forum and this would complete eachother?

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby flamingolady » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:18 pm

Brynn - I took at look at the site - nice job, and impressive! I will be joining very soon. Afraid I've been in the hospital, then rehab and still have medical people in and out of here, so hoping things will calm down a bit over the weekend so I can join and peruse the site, as I'd like to see more.
Kudos!
dee

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby druban » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:00 pm

Looks great! What a lot of hard work must have gone into it. Good luck!
Your mind is what you think it is.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Lazur URH » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:52 pm

@Flamingolady- Get well!

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Lazur URH
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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Lazur URH » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:17 pm

Pilosopong Tasyo wrote:
Lazur URH wrote:Is this a getaway, to a more organised forum that competes, or do you see your forum and this would complete eachother?

From the welcome page:

In light of the maturity of InkscapeForum.com, I expect this Inkscape Community forum will better serve new Inkscape users, at least at first. And speaking of IF, please understand that I do not wish to be competitive. Just 2 friendly forums with the similar goal of offering support for Inkscape, and the Inkscape community. I hope we'll have many common members, and I hope members of both forums will feel comfortable participating in both forums.

Congratulations on the new project, brynn! :D


All right I somehow overlooked that.
Anyway, still there are shadows of doubt in me.
To this day, this forum has 11242 users,
from which only 46 people had more than 100 posts:

brynn
microUgly
~suv
prkos
druban
Lazur URH
flamingolady
ragstian
Xav
llogg

capnhud
sas
chriswww
heathenx
v1nce
RobA
BobSongs
Maestral
Grobe
EarlyBlake

RM.
Inkspots
tomh
ivan louette
Pilosopong Tasyo
prokoudine
Slow Dog
aho
kelan
Kjohrf
hellocatfood

Darth_Gimp
vwanweb
David Hewitt
chrisjj
SureWhyNot
nils
loonquawl
Bucic
dvlierop
DannyKing

VitalBodies
Ailurus
shawnhcorey
Coco
ryanlerch
Dillerkind,

from which 38 people have their most active forum "Help with using Inkscape".
That is far the most popular section here, and most of that forum related topics are made by inkscape beginners.
Speaking the new forum is better serving that function -which is very possible with the well organised materials-,
that is, by far competing with this forum itself.
Thus I was wondering, what are Brynn's views on these things,
as what are the differences that would separate and complete eachother,
and what would prevent from competing?
Those similar goals can possibly divide the "community".
Yes I do know that little girl saying why don't we have both, but
imagine you can choose two cars to drive.
Would you drive both on the same road at the same time, to get to the same place?
Last edited by Lazur URH on Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby brynn » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:34 am

Wow, thanks everyone!

Lazur, I'm not entirely sure why you are concerned about these things. I suppose, having a 2nd English speaking Inkscape forum implies some kind of competition, just because there are 2 -- they have some differences, and some might prefer 1 or the other. But like you said, I don't know why there can't be both. Just because someone is a member here, doesn't mean they can't be a member there (and vice versa).

There are other Inkscape forums now, already -- 1 in Italian and 1 in German. And there have been, in the past....I believe Swedish, or maybe Dutch, or something from that area of the world. And I think there was a Brazilian forum, in the past. And there have been other English speaking Inskcape forums -- one called Learning Digital Design (which is closed now), which had tutorials for a few open source graphics apps (and a forum), and Syllie had a forum at Very Simple Designs for a while, as well. I think both closed because they became too much work for their creators.

Lazur URH wrote:...from which 37 people have their most active forum "Help with using Inkscape". That is far the most popular section here, and most of that forum related topics are made by inkscape beginners.

I've seen several requests for more specific boards here, some made by me, some by others.

Anyway, I do not wish to divide the community. Countless examples can be made, of just graphics programs alone (and for another example, the internet security community) for which there are many different forums. (I haven't looked in a while, but a few years ago, there were 4 or 5 GIMP forums, for example.) (And I couldn't begin to guess how many there are for Adobe Illustrator!) Many of them share, not only regular members, but share moderators and even admins! They work together to offer support for whatever program or issue. Having more than 1 forum does not have to divide a community, and in this case, I don't see why it would or should. Instead, I think it might enrich the Inkscape community in general, to have more than 1 forum.

Up until recently, when I suddenly realized that I could no longer effectively moderate this forum alone, without support (at least not without some advanced permissions) I was planning to keep on moderating here, and open my site too, at the same time. Why can't we have common members? If I had thought micro had any extra time, I would have asked him to co-admin with me. I do not wish to be competitive and I do not think having a 2nd forum will divide the community.

Lazur URH wrote:Thus I was wondering, what are Brynn's views on these things,
as what are the differences that would separate and complete eachother,
and what would prevent from competing?

It would go against my wishes not to be competitive, were I to point out all the differences. Anyone is welcome to visit the site. Again, it is NOT my intention to divide the community. And not only do I think it will not divide the community, I don't really think it's possible....not as long as it's my site, because again, that's not what I want. If I thought having a 2nd forum would divide the community, I would not have built it! I think it will enrich the community!

Have I missed your point?


Edit
Oops! :oops: When you said "what are the differences that would separate and complete each other" at first I thought you said compete. So I apologize for that!

Well, I think the centralized source of good tutorials is something missing here, as well as the opportunity for people to write tutorials which would not just be linked, but reside there. That's unique on the internet, as far as Inkscape, as far as I can tell. (I've seen quite a few sites that simply display tutorials written by others.) This may just be my personal preference, but not being in a blog format, which most tutorial sites seem to be, might make it easier to find them. (Note that I hope to add a tag/word cloud navigation for my Inkscape Tutorials page, as soon as I can figure out how, lol. It's a bit beyond me, at the moment.) So the tutorials complement this forum. I will be adding a gallery soon. While this site has the 2 forums for displaying images, a gallery is a different way of displaying them, which some may prefer. So the gallery will be a complement too.

What prevents from competing? Well, like I said, that's not my intention. I will not encourage it, and I will not allow competitive statements about the 2 forums, by members. I don't know what else you might mean. Honestly, at first I was planning just the content that you see on the Home tab (the tutorials) -- just a simple webpage. But I was becoming more and more concerned about microUgly's absense and lack of communication. I half expected to log on here one day, and the forum would just be gone. So I thought I'd add a forum, just in case. And once I had the forum installed, well, of course I had to customize it :P What would you expect from a wanna be artist :lol:

Anyway, I've never seen multiple forums offering support for a program or issue, divide a community, unless there is already a division within a community. And I just don't see that there is such a division here (unless something's happened since I've been gone). I stopped moderating because I felt that I could not be effective, moderating alone without support, without some advanced permissions. My site was in the works, and well underway, long before I realized that, and stopped moderating here recently. Note the date I started this topic: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12530.

So, I don't know. I hope I've answered your questions. But I don't clearly understand your concern. I hope you'll visit, and I hope you'll want to register. But of course you have free will, and I won't feel badly if you don't. But I don't think you need to be concerned about dividing the community. People can participate in 1, 2, 3 or many forums, if they choose to.

All best :D

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Lazur URH » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:19 am

brynn wrote:...just because there are 2 -- they have some differences, and some might prefer 1 or the other. But like you said, I don't know why there can't be both...


I'm not saying that there can't be. I was just thinking when people browsing around for inkscape material, they will actually chose between the two.
Only because personal preferences, and not because they would get to two different solutions to their problems at each place.

brynn wrote:...
I've seen several requests for more specific boards here, some made by me.
...I voiced those wishes in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12530#p47123.
...So part of my motivation was to have another forum, in case that should happen...


This place is made up by 1/10 of your posts.
Your work is the most essential here.
By the fact you started another forum with very similar goals as this one's,
it's a bit of saying this one can't fulfill, and is, practically dead.

I have to admit some radical refreshing of it would be needed.

brynn wrote:...Having more than 1 forum does not have to divide a community, and in this case, I don't see why it would or should. Instead, I think it might enrich the Inkscape community in general, to have more than 1 forum...


That's just my opinion but I can't see how two so similar pages would add up to something more.
Like from two more differing coloured paints you can make more shades.
Two of the same won't create new ones.
So I was thinking those differences between the two forums would be the strength that could complete eachother.
Which of course would be needed to be followed by a rethinking of this one's strategy.

But yes maybe I'm too negative on the things.
Time will tell.

Good luck with it!

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby brynn » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:11 am

Lazur URH wrote:I was just thinking when people browsing around for inkscape material, they will actually chose between the two.

Someday, they may have 3 or 4 to choose from!

Lazur URH wrote:By the fact you started another forum with very similar goals as this one's,
it's a bit of saying this one can't fulfill, and is, practically dead

Well it's certainly not my intention to give that impression. I expect that this will remain the de facto Inkscape forum for quite some time to come, and I can hardly expect to compete, even if I wanted to. But I think for some new users, they may feel more comfortable on a smaller forum. Just because I felt a need for certain other features shouldn't imply that this forum is somehow inferior, or leave the impression that I think it is. Practically dead??!

Because I felt a need for certain other features means only that I felt a need for certain other features. It doesn't mean that anyone else feels the same way. You might notice how few people responded to my initial comments in the topic "ideas for Inkscape community" (linked in previous message).

Lazur URH wrote:Like from two more differing coloured paints you can make more shades.
Two of the same won't create new ones

If you have any suggestions for my site being more complementary to this one, I'd be glad to hear them. But it might not be appropriate to discuss them here.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby druban » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:40 pm

We should count ourselves lucky to have more choices! I don't think there would be any problem with posting a link saying, "See tutorial on other site," or "check for answers in this forum..." Why don't we just look at it as a possibility and see what happens?
Your mind is what you think it is.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby flamingolady » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:24 am

On the contrary, one plus one does equal more IMHO!
I see having more than one site as being like an ice cream store, just because I have a cone today doesn't stop me from buying ice cream at the grocery store and having some tomorrow = different approaches to getting to the same end result of eating some ice cream! Same thing with forums. There's no reason I can't use both sites. Different sites will attract different types of users and various skill levels; this site has the more advanced users, like the developers, coders, more techie people, graphics people, and people who use Inkscape for their real jobs, etc. p.s. everything in life isn't a competition!

Have you ever looked at some of the posts with attachments (I often look to see how many people have downloaded an attached file, and am amazed at the numbers, which far outnumber the number of posts themselves), this shows there are MANY lurkers, but they aren't posting. why? because many people are hesitant to jump in, afraid they'll look stupid compared to the advanced people here, and/or that they'll get berated for asking a dumb question. (I guess I'm not afraid to look stupid, lol). Just being honest here. However, at a site like Brynn's, people will feel more comfortable in asking those 'dumb' questions, without fear of being stomped on for asking (just look at some of the posts here for examples), people don't want to feel like they have to defend themselves for asking a question. Sometimes if you don't know where to find something you don't even know what to search for or where to begin searching. Then, when you do, that answer was specific to someone else, so you (okay me), end up asking the newbie question anyway.

I'm not criticizing this site (I like this site), I would have left if I weren't content with it - have been a bit unhappy at some people's disrespectful responses at times though, but that's anywhere in life. MicroU certainly doesn't have the time to babysit people asking the same question over and over again after all, so yes, I do see a need for several sites and various resources, the more the better; there are many types of personalities after all. I'm hoping Brynn can put together a good Guide for Dummies/Newbies forum, where people can go to first to address the redundant questions, though maybe a newbie manual would serve better.... Tav's manual is good, but simply doesn't address everything, nothing can do that, lol! I'd like for us here to be able to refer newbies to her site, where they'd be welcomed with open arms (okay, that's my vision, not Brynn's). Not that this forum isn't friendly, it's just a bit more 'formal' here, for lack of a better word. example: I've honestly never seen another site 'ding' folks for not specifically writing the words 'OFF TOPIC', someone even complained that it was supposed to be underlined - really? I haven't even figured out how to underline, lol, but you get my gist, things like that scare folks away.

Brynn's site right now seems to focus on having tuts and resources, that she'll keep up to date, that's a great thing, for any level, we can always improve on our skills. I consider myself intermediate level, however, on some areas I'm still a newbie, and some a bit more advanced, so there is ALWAYS something to learn. I think that with more sites, we are better off. If her site doesn't meet a need, then it will fail anyway. I have yet to see one site fulfill every need.

There used to be a really good forum and Inkscape site (Learn Digital Design), which I really liked, sadly due to not enough admin and too many spammers, he closed it (the videos are now on YouTube). It primarily served with helping newbies and showing one's artwork in a non critical way, it was also more friendly to newbies. It was also set up to teach skills in a newbie to intermediate to advanced level in that order, which was great.

@Lazur - are you the new 'formal' admin? I've been ill and wasn't sure if Micro selected you or if you just jumped in? (you're doing a good job BTW, you seem to have a LOT of knowledge). p.s. thx for the get well wishes, I sure do need them!

Knowledge is why I come to this particular site, there are so many skilled people who have been willing to share. I've learned so much!
dee

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby Lazur URH » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:01 am

@Flamingolady - yes I have been too much around, playing the wise while I know I should better use my energy.
Actually I didn't have the guts to jump in, knowing it's a big responsibility, needs constant reliability and much less ego.
(On a side note I'm Leo in the Zodiac, and someone of Sagittarius would be a better choice for an admin.)
I may do so, as now new users first posts can have a weekly latency.

It's a dilemma right now.
The most active admin can't see the possibilities in this forum anymore, how it could further evolve, and created a much organised one.
Without a vision it would be only keeping up the level, but that only could get worse in my opinion.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby microUgly » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:59 am

Congratulations, Brynn, on the release of Inkscape Community. I'm sure it will be very popular :)

In regards to debates about "competitiveness and "splitting the community", I don't agree. Choice is good. More forums and sites can only serve to make Inkscape more accessible and more popular.

Lazur URH wrote:The most active admin can't see the possibilities in this forum anymore, ...

Is that me? :) Unfortunately, I don't have the time to offer to this forum that I used. But I try to visit every day to clear out the spam and let through the legitimate users.

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Re: announcing a new Inkscape website!

Postby druban » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:43 pm

Microugly, I just wanted to say of the many forum admins I have experience of you are by far the best. Without your delicate touch this forum would never have grown into what it is enjoyed and utilized by so many.
Invisible but present - admins everywhere could live by that motto! Thanks!
Your mind is what you think it is.

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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby ianp5a » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:11 pm





Whoah! A link to Inkscape Community. I didn't know that existed. I'm going to join them. Goodbye forever! ... Or are they all bad people over there? Or are they all the same people as here? Or is there only three of them?


* See this post.

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[moved post*] offtopic

Postby Lazur URH » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:30 pm

ianp5a wrote:Whoah! A link to Inkscape Community. I didn't know that existed. I'm going to join them. Goodbye forever! ... Or are they all bad people over there? Or are they all the same people as here? Or is there only three of them?


original announcement


* See this post.

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Maestral
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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby Maestral » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:57 am

C`mon, guys... please preserve some dignity.

Aside of ridiculous arguments why would anyone need a separate forum, with the same people from this one, you are (those the very same people) now replying to posts here with the links to that other forum? I was certain that all of you`re not underaged.

In short...
Either mind you manners or stay on your forum. Advertising your forum here is ______________.


* See this post.
:tool_zoom: <<< click! - but, those with a cheaper tickets should go this way >>> :!:

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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby brynn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:43 am

ianp5a wrote:Whoah! A link to Inkscape Community. I didn't know that existed. I'm going to join them. Goodbye forever! ... Or are they all bad people over there? Or are they all the same people as here? Or is there only three of them?


Maestral wrote:C`mon, guys... please preserve some dignity.

Aside of ridiculous arguments why would anyone need a separate forum, with the same people from this one, you are (those the very same people) now replying to posts here with the links to that other forum? I was certain that all of you`re not underaged.

In short...
Either mind you manners or stay on your forum. Advertising your forum here is ______________.


:o What the.....?

I've been a member of this forum for almost 8 years (longer than any of you) and actively moderated here for around 4 years. A few years ago, I realized I wanted more features and resources for the Inkscape community, than what this forum offers. So I approached the admin of this forum, to find out if he would be interested in expanding this forum, for the good of the community. He didn't want to (which is probably understandable, given the amount of time he's participated, in the last 4 or 5 years). So I started another website for Inkscape, which offers additional features and resources. Anyone is welcome to register and participate, if they like.

Since I opened my website almost 2 years ago, I and others have posted many links in this forum, to the resources on my website, in order to help people who post their problems here. I've personally posted links to those 2 same tutorials at least 3 times each (since the complaint in this topic is common).

Why, now, you are suddenly lashing out? And lashing out against what? You somehow object to someone who wants to support and promote Inkscape?


* See this post.

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Maestral
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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby Maestral » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:05 am

Brynn, I`ll speak for myself: It`s not always "what" but sometimes "how" we do things prevail.

No lashing or similar, just a pointer / heads up ... and similar. At least, an opinion exchange.
Don`t get me wrong, I could elaborate my reasons, but let`s keep it nice either way.


* See this post.
:tool_zoom: <<< click! - but, those with a cheaper tickets should go this way >>> :!:

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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby brynn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:09 am

I agree about keeping things nice on the forum. But I would be glad to hear your reasons, if you care to communicate via PM. If I've offended anyone, I'll apologize. But if I have, it would be helpful to know how. Likely it's a misunderstanding.


* See this post.

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Maestral
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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby Maestral » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:16 pm

Here, on this forum, we have ~dozen members contributing their time and knowledge.

What we also have here are dozens of hundreds of members with one post. Big chunk of those are kids or just "passing through" members. Not to forget those frustrated ones demanding help or explanation ,) So, your tremendous work of forming and keeping the other forum is dedicated and devoted to that kind of people !?! How did I came up with that conclusion? Well, here is the thing....

Whenever those ~dozen are exchanging opinions or links - they/we mostly don`t really need some extra forum features. Why? Because we use the existing ones like: Search, Signatures, Bookmarks etc. As far as I can remember, we were talking about the special features only as a counter measures to The Invasion of Ignorant ___________ and in those rare cases when we tried to form a firmer bonds through participation in challenges or similar activities.

For those dozens of hundreds these existing forum features are The Features from the Forbidden Realm. So, dividing a dirty dozen, which are in fact truly contributing this forum, can not be a good thing to do. Especially if it`s in favour of those ignorant ___________ ,)


* See this post.
:tool_zoom: <<< click! - but, those with a cheaper tickets should go this way >>> :!:

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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby brynn » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:26 am

If you read the original announcement, that Lazur linked to, you will see a discussion about that. And nothing has changed.

It's not my intent to divide the community. My forum is not there to compete for members, or to compete with this forum, in any way. It's not this forum or that forum is best. (It's not a popularity contest -- this is not high school or facebook.) It's both forums are providing features and resources that the community is welcome to use, according to their own individual needs and preferences. It's about providing support for Inkscape, and helping to build the community.

People can be members of more than 1 forum if they want to, and provide their support in more than 1 forum if they want to. They do not have to choose one or the other. (How many GIMP forums are there? How many Illustrator forums are there? And how many Inkscape forums are there, already, before I even started mine?)

So, your tremendous work of forming and keeping the other forum is dedicated and devoted to that kind of people !?!

What's wrong with that? Isn't that what you're doing here?

Whenever those ~dozen are exchanging opinions or links - they/we mostly don`t really need some extra forum features. Why? Because we use the existing ones like: Search, Signatures, Bookmarks etc.

You're the spokesman for this forum? I think that's probably your opinion.

For those dozens of hundreds these existing forum features are The Features from the Forbidden Realm.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

I think you do a disservice to Inkscape, Inkscape users, and the whole Inkscape community, when you call certain members "ignorant". In my opinion, it's more polite to call them "new users" or "new Inkscape users" (or "newbies", "noobs", etc.).

And finally, me posting links to a couple of tutorials that I wrote is not advertising my forum. It's providing support for Inkscape users.


* See this post.

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Maestral
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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby Maestral » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:48 am

Since you responded without any arguments, can you provide a proof that you`re not simply diverting the web traffic from this forum towards yours with monetary gain?


* See this post.
:tool_zoom: <<< click! - but, those with a cheaper tickets should go this way >>> :!:

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[moved post*] Re: Why won't it let me use colors?

Postby brynn » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:46 am

Maestral wrote:Since you responded without any arguments, can you provide a proof that you`re not simply diverting the web traffic from this forum towards yours with monetary gain?


I responded without any arguments? I don't know what you mean by that.

I suppose that comes under the category of "none of your business". But if it will make you feel better, I'll try. The problem is that I don't know what kind of proof you want. I don't have any ads on my site. Isn't that how people generate income from their website, by placing ads on their site, and they get some tiny bit of money for each click on the ads? I really don't know anything about that, since I dislike that kind of advertising. (I use an ad blocker in my browser.) I've always had the impression that kind of income is pretty small -- maybe just enough to pay the hosting fees? But I don't really know.

So you can easily see that there are no ads. Tell me what others ways there are to make money by web traffic, and what kind of proof you need, and I will try to provide it. (assuming there is no security risk in providing whatever info you ask for) Or....I guess you could just look at the source code for one of my pages, with your browser, to see what's on there.


* See this post.


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