How would you recreate this?

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Henry432
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How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:40 am

Hello, I would like to please know if someone can assist me in figuring out how to recreate the image below in inkscape. All I know is the background is green and the lines are tan. I just need to recreate the lines. If anyone knows how to achieve this, please share. Also I know you can recreate the lines with the pen tool but that would be tedious and I'm sure that's not how the lines were created. I'm sure there is a more accurate way. Anyways here is the picture:

Image

Code: Select all

http://s1.postimg.org/uyue792jz/234.png

Lazur
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Lazur » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:18 am

Hi.

That looks similar to the means of the guilloche borders.
At first sight.

Probably there is a parametric curve that could be plotted for a circular shape alike, but to be honest it is far less complicated making it in other ways.
For example, you can make duplicants of the half wave shape and rotate them each with the same angle, or use the make tiled clones option.
similar problem


Other, much cleaner solution would be to use a pattern along path lpe.
Draw one half wave, and use it for the effect on a (circular) path.
Then set it to be repeated and stretched, with no spacing.
After that, copy and paste it back at position (Ctrl+C, Ctrl+Alt+V), and change the tangential offset value.
Four pasted versions and the original together can make the pattern.
The offsetting value is the only part that would need special care for an accurate result.

Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:31 am

Can you show a quick example please. If possible.

Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:52 am

Now that I think of it. This looks like something a Spirograph toy would make. Does anyone know how to make a full circle pattern? I just think the image above was cut in half and was actually made with a full circle and then cut in half. After they cut it in half I think they deleted the circle stroke and left the lines. If anyone has any idea how to recreate the effect in inkscape. Please reply.

Here is how I think they did it.

1. Drew a thick circular stroke.
2. Then converted the stroke to a path.
3. After they did that. They removed the fill and added stroke lines.
4. At this point it looks like a doughnut.
5. Then they did some magic and made curves inside the stroke lines that created the pattern all around.
6. After the curves were made, they removed the stroke and left the circular looking lines like you see above.
7. Finally they cut the lines in half like the image above and added a green background.

This is how I'm guessing it was done.
Last edited by Henry432 on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lazur
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Lazur » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:56 am

Hmm now that I tried some notes.

The repeated, stretched produces worse result than the simple repeated option, and, more confusingly it all works better on an open path.
Would definitely need some time finetuning it.
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Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:05 am

That looks a bit different Lazur. Have any other ideas?

Lazur
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Lazur » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:58 am

Second try.

With pattern along path lpe,
spirograph extension, and
by duplicating and rotating through the transformation panel (Shift+Ctrl+M).
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Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:16 am

WOW MUCH BETTER!

If you don't mind. How do you get the results you got. You don't have to make an in depth tutorial or anything. Just a quick tutorial will be fine if you want. Thanks Lazur URH!

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:41 am

Oh no, I would definitely use the Spirograph extension, then do some node editing. But that's just me. I have literally hundreds of spirograms, and could give you one that would work.

Unfortunately, after you change settings in the Spirograph dialog, you can never get back the settings you used to make any particular pattern. I think this is going to be fixed soon, as far as I understand. But for the time being, I keep hundreds of them on hand. Once we can find the specific settings of any spirogram, by simply selecting it (like with any object), I won't need to save the spirogram drawings -- only the settings!

Anyway, it's probably a toss-up, as to which technique would create performance issues (Inkscape working slower and slower) first. But if you do run into problems with the pap, I"ll be glad to upload a few spirograms for you to work with. :D

Edit

Just fyi on what the Spirograph extension can do:
http://inkscapecommunity.com/ic_gallery ... ampler.png
http://inkscapecommunity.com/ic_gallery ... -black.png

I'm looking through my collection, and will try to make a quick tutorial.

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:26 pm

Ok, here we go. Numbered steps refer to the attached SVG file.

1 -- A spirogram with relatively close pattern to your screenshot.
2 -- Draw a circle (true circle, use Ctrl); then center the circle over the spirogram (Align and Distribute dialog); then scale the circle so that it covers everything you don't want to show.
3 -- Select both spirogram and circle, and do Path menu > Cut Path; then start deleting the inner pieces that you don't need.
4 -- just shows where almost all the pieces are deleted
5 -- Drag selection box around everything that's left, and do Path menu > Combine.

Now you have the larger piece. I don't know if you need it to be chopped off exactly like it is in your screenshot. But you can break paths and delete whatever you don't need.

6 -- Duplicate that result from #5; and scale it large enough to match the arc of the smaller pieces (in your screenshot); when it's the right size, duplicate it; then rotate the duplicate so that it creates something like you see in #6.
7 -- Draw another circle and use the same process as before, to get rid of the inner pieces that you don't need.
8 -- Look closely at #7 and #8; the circles are slightly different sizes. The one in #8 is how it needs to be.
9 -- If we use Cut Path on #7, we can't create the tiny....well "tails" is what I would call it, that you see in the blue ellipse in #9. (well you could, but it would be harder)
10 -- So I didn't delete all the pieces, because it's a bit tedious. But you can see in the red circle, what you need to do, to make the tails, after all the un-needed pieces are deleted. Note that I suspect it would be possible to make a spirogram, in just the right pattern, that the little tails are already created. But I just don't have time to experiment, because unless you're a math whiz, it's purely trial and error.

Oh gosh! I was just trying to remember what settings I used, for the original. I couldn't figure it out, but I did happen to make a spirogram that will have the tiny tails. lol So that's #11. It just needs to be scaled larger, and probably like in #6, duplicated and rotated. I put an aqua colored circle underneath, that is aligned correctly to get the tails.

And then....well, I'm not at all clear what you're planning with this project. But to look exactly like your screenshot, of course you'll need to chop off the pieces from the larger pattern, to make the smaller pieces in the your screenshot.

So that's all you would need to reproduce that pattern, using spirograms. But I'll be glad to answer any questions, if I breezed over anything too fast :D
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Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:12 pm

This is great! I can tell your really into spirographs and I agree the spirograph extension needs some work. THANKS A LOT! I REALLY MEAN IT! :)

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:11 am

You're welcome!

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:23 pm

Hey, just to save you some time, doing trial and error with Spirograph, here are a few I've made that might work for certificate borders, in the attached SVG.
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Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:30 pm

brynn wrote:Hey, just to save you some time, doing trial and error with Spirograph, here are a few I've made that might work for certificate borders, in the attached SVG.


WOW!!! Now I am really interested in the spirograph extension. May you please make another thread explaining the spirograph tool. I'm really interested in knowing how you made the wavy edges. Really nice!

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:16 am

Well, it's not really worthy of a new thread. It's 100% trial and error. Start with....for example, the numbers you used for the rounded star in your other topic. Or just any numbers Use the live preview. The change the numbers, 1 whole unit, or even 1 tenth, at a time. Sometimes, a change of just 1 tenth, can result in a drastic change of the spirogram that's produced. When you get one you like, click Apply. And also don't forget to switch the Gear Placement (Inside or Outside), because that can also drastically change the result.

Math whizzes, who understand the formulas, can probably produce what they need, just because they understand the formula. But I'm not that. I'm all trial and error. And I should probaly say, it takes a lot of patience. Because on my system, Inkscape crashes if I try to put more than 6 to 8 spirograms in a file (depending on their sizes). I'll be all engrossed what's happening to the spirograms, as I adjust the numbers, and forget about the 6 to 8 limit. Then Inskcape crashes, and I can't get the numbers back that I was using.

When one of those 3 numbers is less than 10, and especially less than 5, that's when those wavy patterns, and other weird things, show up. And that's about all I can say!

Henry432
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Henry432 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:28 am

Okay I understand and thanks a lot. The spirograph extension shouldn't have to make a new image every time you generate different numbers and click apply. I think this is one major problem that needs fixing because like you said the program will crash. I just hope in the next update they can fix that problem. Maybe when you adjust the numbers you can see the image change instead of it making a completely new one. That would leave a lot of the guesswork out of it.

Lazur
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby Lazur » Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:25 am

Henry432 wrote:WOW MUCH BETTER!

If you don't mind. How do you get the results you got. You don't have to make an in depth tutorial or anything. Just a quick tutorial will be fine if you want. Thanks Lazur URH!



At the previously linked meander topic I made a step by step tutorial with an explanation on the rotating duplicants method.
Here, the star was drawn over the original raster image, to make an easy counting on the number of repeats.
70 corners, 70 repeats -obviously that means 360/70=5,142857143° rotations. Not a nice one, but anyway.
You can use the transformation panel (Shift+Ctrl+M), even if the result won't be that accurate.



brynn wrote:Well, it's not really worthy of a new thread. It's 100% trial and error. Start with....for example, the numbers you used for the rounded star in your other topic. Or just any numbers Use the live preview. The change the numbers, 1 whole unit, or even 1 tenth, at a time. Sometimes, a change of just 1 tenth, can result in a drastic change of the spirogram that's produced. When you get one you like, click Apply. And also don't forget to switch the Gear Placement (Inside or Outside), because that can also drastically change the result.

Math whizzes, who understand the formulas, can probably produce what they need, just because they understand the formula. But I'm not that. I'm all trial and error. And I should probaly say, it takes a lot of patience. Because on my system, Inkscape crashes if I try to put more than 6 to 8 spirograms in a file (depending on their sizes). I'll be all engrossed what's happening to the spirograms, as I adjust the numbers, and forget about the 6 to 8 limit. Then Inskcape crashes, and I can't get the numbers back that I was using.

When one of those 3 numbers is less than 10, and especially less than 5, that's when those wavy patterns, and other weird things, show up. And that's about all I can say!



The manual can give a pretty good image in my humble opinion.
http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Extensions-Render.html#Extensions-Spirograph

Basically it is rotating a circle around an other one.
It starts from the right extreme point of a circle with the radius of the R parameter, and goes in rounds to make a continuous pattern as much as possible.
"Spikes" appear only if r=d.
The size of the path drawn can also be approximated from the parameters.

I wouldn't say it's 100% try and error.

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brynn
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Re: How would you recreate this?

Postby brynn » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:53 am

Well, like I said, for people who understand the formulas -- it's easy -- probably not random at all. For me, it's trial and error.

Actually, after browsing through the manual page Lazur provided, it looks like designs similar to those made by Spirograph extn, could be made with Parametric Curves, and/or Function Plotter extns. Maybe that's how those guiloche borders are made?


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