How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

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Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:13 pm

I need this for the Bezier Envelope Extension.

To work on full text in one go, it requires the handles to be perfectly symmetric.

As you can see in my example, the shape i made seems perfect, but when you look at the handles, they are different on each side...
I need them to be exactly the same !

Tried a grid and guides, but its very difficult to get 100% right.

Is there a trick ?

symmetricHandles.png
symmetricHandles.png (30.62 KiB) Viewed 2043 times

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:53 pm

I think i've found a good solution !

- draw a rectangle from the top left corner to the right lower corner
- convert to path
- select nodes and convert to curves (makes the handles extend)
- hold down CTRL and move one handle up (adjust snapping angles in the Preferences as required)
- drag a guide to the endpoint of the handle
- repeat for the handle on the other side, with snapping of angle and snap handle to guide

Lazur
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Lazur » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 pm

An idea would be using spiro-paths instead.

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:10 pm

Lazur wrote:An idea would be using spiro-paths instead.


How would you do that ??

theozh
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby theozh » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:37 am

if you allow for another node, the following could also be a simple solution:
1. create an additional node in the center
2. make this node symmetric
3. drag this node vertically while holding Ctrl-key
4. drag one handle horizontally while holding Ctrl-key

SymmetricNode.gif
SymmetricNode.gif (192.84 KiB) Viewed 1943 times
Win7/64, Inkscape 0.92.2

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:34 pm

theozh wrote:if you allow for another node, the following could also be a simple solution:


the Bezier Envelope Extension requires the control path to have exactly four nodes, starting from the upper left corner going clockwise

Lazur
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Lazur » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:13 pm

Raspi wrote:
Lazur wrote:An idea would be using spiro-paths instead.


How would you do that ??



Made a quick screen capturing here.

On a second thought maybe you are after an elliptical arc instead of a circular one?
Anyway the linking or the pasting option of the path effect can help with that too.


Another option if you wanted to go by the manual drawing option would be using snapping -would need to draw the snapping target then, for example by first drawing a reference curve, then using the draw handles extension (under visualize path).

Moini
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Moini » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:20 pm

Or mirror and snap the handles?
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tylerdurden
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:48 pm

I'd use a mirrored helper path and a couple of guides.

Image
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Raspi
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:25 pm

You guys all know what the Bezier Envelope Extension is, right ?

Tylerdurden recommended me in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=32010&p=97216

But it only works on a perfect, four node, envelope path. And it seems a bit picky about how the path was drawn.

Because when its not perfectly symetric (handle-wise) this happens:

Image

So far, only TD's suggestion works for me.

tylerdurden
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:30 pm

Ja, that's why I suggest the helper path... It leaves the target path with just four nodes.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Raspi
Posts: 229
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:02 pm

tylerdurden wrote:Ja, that's why I suggest the helper path... It leaves the target path with just four nodes.


you always give good advice, td ! appreciate it

Raspi
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:45 pm

I thought i got this, but working on a badge design, im still struggling...

getting the handles perfectly symetric on top of this existing curvature is driving me crazy

help please !
(i want envelope deformed text inside the light gray area)

Badge.png
Badge.png (11.62 KiB) Viewed 1814 times

tylerdurden
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:04 am

That's gonna be tough to shape, even with symmetric nodes, considering the amount of arc.

It might require a combination of tools/effects and node editing.
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Lazur
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:38 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Lazur » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:15 am

Gimp had recently got such a script written by Ofnuts, check it out here.
Hoping Jabier can implement that sometime.

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:06 am

tylerdurden wrote:That's gonna be tough to shape, even with symmetric nodes, considering the amount of arc.

It might require a combination of tools/effects and node editing.

So its the curvature...!
Now that you mention it, i can see what you mean.
The angle is probably too extreme for most font types anyway.


Lazur wrote:Gimp had recently got such a script written by Ofnuts, check it out here.

Thanks, i will have a look !
But which one is it ? There are so many...

tylerdurden
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:24 pm

You might get some ideas from Nick the logo guy on YT.

This video link starts where he demonstrates a method to node edit text like you are seeking.

https://youtu.be/ywInKVezX6o?t=317
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

tylerdurden
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Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:04 pm
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:17 pm

You can get pretty close using some of the above technique and instead of perspective/envelope, use Bezier Envelope on each letter/block pair. Then trim letter bottoms with a boolean like demonstrated. Either way works.
B1.svg_-_Inkscape_2018-01-07_22-12-48.png
B1.svg_-_Inkscape_2018-01-07_22-12-48.png (60.28 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

(The wider the gap between the small circle and the text region, the less curvature and easier fitting.)
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:22 pm

Thats exactly what i tried to avoid, lol

Im well aware of that technique and used it for a bit, because i didnt understand the Bezier Envelope is capable of doing it all in one go, instead of painstakingly breaking up the text, creating an envelope for every single letter and then applying one by one.

It could be all so easy if that Extension wasnt so picky about handle position.

theozh
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby theozh » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:45 am

Raspi wrote:It could be all so easy if that Extension wasnt so picky about handle position.
are you sure it is the handle position?

Isn't the conclusion more:
it doesn't matter whether you have a perfectly symmetric 4-point envelope, Inkscape cannot (yet) distort the path in a way you want it to be, i.e. compressing a path only in vertical direction without distorting it in horizontal direction?

Although, it seems to be obsolete, here is another way to draw a 4-point envelope with "perfectly" symmetric node handles.
1. Select two nodes and make the selected segment curve
2. rotate the handles while holding Ctrl- and Alt-key.
Ctrl-key rotates the handle in a defined angle (standard setting 15°), and Alt-key keeps the handles at constant length.
3. if you need to change the length of the handles make them vertical while holding the Ctrl-Key and snapping e.g. to a guide
SymmetricHandles.gif
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Win7/64, Inkscape 0.92.2

Raspi
Posts: 229
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:27 am

theozh wrote:Isn't the conclusion more:
it doesn't matter whether you have a perfectly symmetric 4-point envelope, Inkscape cannot (yet) distort the path in a way you want it to be, i.e. compressing a path only in vertical direction without distorting it in horizontal direction?

I dont understand where you are getting this from.
Have you tried the Bezier Envelope ? It works.
It was written for that very purpose.
You can even read it in the code, when you open it in a text editor. There are some notes on the concept.

Try it with different handle positions and you will see that it makes a difference.

Please proove me wrong and all my difficulties would be gone ;)

tylerdurden
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Location: Michigan, USA

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby tylerdurden » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:07 am

Food for thought:

Image
Attachments
BezEnv.svg
(6.8 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
Have a nice day.

I'm using Inkscape 0.92.2 (5c3e80d, 2017-08-06), 64 bit win8.1

The Inkscape manual has lots of helpful info! http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/

Raspi
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 am

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 am

tylerdurden wrote:Food for thought:

Is that about the straight lines ?

This extension was written by a certain Gerrit Karius. Do we have a way to contact him and direct to this thread ?

theozh
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby theozh » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:19 am

Raspi wrote: I dont understand where you are getting this from.
Have you tried the Bezier Envelope ? It works.
maybe, then I am using it wrongly.
That's what I get when I apply the Bezier Envelope...
and that's not what I would expect.

BezierEnvelope.png
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Win7/64, Inkscape 0.92.2

Raspi
Posts: 229
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Re: How can i draw an envelope path with perfectly symmetric handles ?

Postby Raspi » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:28 am

I stand corrected :(


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