From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

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MARSZ
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From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:00 pm

Howdy Y-all,

I open a submenu like the Fill and Stroke submenu (shift-ctrl-F).
And I can close it with ctrl-W.
But is there also a key( combination) for jumping from submenu to canvas which doesnt close the submenu ?

Doei-doei,
M

Moini
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Moini » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:49 pm

Escape.
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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:07 pm

Hallo Maren ,

Nee. Sorry.

Selector modus (F1/S).
Select a stroke/line.
Ctrl-shift-F, Fill and Stroke, cursor selection at Width: n,nnn , ..... ESC...... .....rien du tout, nichts, nada, niets.

But, thanks for the quick response !

Ato, M

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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:23 pm

Moini wrote:Escape.


Yah, it -is- nice weather outside.....

;)

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Moini » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:29 am

? Can you give some more details?

I.e. what exactly are you trying? Which fields are you clicking?

Escape does leave the dialogs and returns focus on the canvas for me, at least when I do this (only thing I tested)
- draw rectangle
- open Fill+Stroke dialog
- change color by using the number field
- Escape
- Arrow up moves rectangle up now, because focus is on canvas.

If I change the color using clicking into the color bars, I don't need to use Escape. Focus is still on the canvas.
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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:33 pm

Hi Moini,

Cant reproduce the problem. Sorry.
Escape works.

Mmm, yesterday I did have a bit of a hangover...
Zu viel Bier.

My sincere apologies and thank you !

M

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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:26 pm

Me brain is getting mushy, I think I meant this:

- draw rectangle
- change Stroke style, Width:, use arrow up/down
- or enter a number
- Escape
- your modified Width is canceled
- your still in the submenu Width field, not on the canvas

I do a lot of stuff with lines and this keeps confusing me.
Especially after a lot of beer.

I think for getting back to the original numeric value in the Width field,
only Ctrl-Z would have been more appropriate.

Cheerio, M

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Moini » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:44 am

Yes, to accept a new value, you need to hit 'Enter', see https://inkscape.org/en/doc/keys092.html#idm285
I agree that tabbing through the fields is sometimes a bit weird... and it's not always obvious which field one is in. Some more obvious highlighting could be useful. If you like, you could make a feature request for that (but it might be it's a matter of desktop theming, not sure).

Fußballfan? ;-)
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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:22 am

Moini wrote:If you like, you could make a feature request for that (but it might be it's a matter of desktop theming, not sure).


Ok thanks, maybe I will do so, not sure yet.
Will switch to tab-esc for the time being.

Moini wrote:Fußballfan? ;-)


No, never have been.
When I was a kid, I wanted to see Daktari on tv, but the rest of the family was Ajax-fan... darn.
But I love beer ! (Landerbräu von Albert Heijn normalerweise.)

Happy drawings, M

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby brynn » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:07 am

I don't understand why a key is needed. Why is clicking the mouse on the canvas not sufficient?

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Moini » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:06 am

Some people prefer to not use the mouse, as it can be faster using just the keyboard, instead of switching back and forth between both. Personally, I'm not one of them - I use Inkscape with the left hand on the keyboard for Ctrl, Alt + Shift and the right hand on the mouse, but: different people, different workflows.

Now I wish I knew some Dutch to reciprocate... But I can just read some, not speak, not understand by listening.
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:21 pm

Love the 1-key shortcuts in Inkscape.
Wish there was a little command-box to enter stuff, something like, for example:
s lw 1,2 [enter] (set linewidth to 1,2).

Love things like: ctrl-d, ctrl-x, ctrl -> ctrl ->, z, clickclickclick, s, ctrl-v, . , . , ctrl-. .

Like to use the command prompt on me laptop too.
Pining for a Linux laptop instead of Windows.

Also like translate.google.com. ;)

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby brynn » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:50 pm

Yes, I understand everyone has their own preferences. I use much like you - right hand on mouse, left on kb. But it never occurred to me that it would be possible to use only the keyboard. It seems things like dragging an object would be easier with the mouse, than tap, tap, tap on arrow keys.

Plus, using the control bar and dialogs almost requires the mouse. Like for example, how would you put the cursor in the H or W fields, in Selection tool control bar, without using the mouse? Going between control bar or dialogs and canvas would seem to almost require using the mouse.

I have had a couple of times when a mouse died, and I had to use keyboard controls to close all open windows and shut down the computer. So I know there probably is a way to get the cursor up there. Maybe a function key? But I muttered countless "aarrrgghhs" trying to shut down using only the keyboard! The mouse click is SO much easier!

Edit
When I selected a stroked path, and changed the width in F/S dialog, then pressed Enter to make the change take effect, I tried using Esc key to get back to canvas. But it did just revert the change I just made to the width!

I can't seem to find any way to get back to the canvas, using kb only. Oh wait, I think I found something!

Normally I use for example, r key, to switch to Rectangle tool (in the rare case that I don't just use the buttons). But using r while cursor is in Width field, just types "r". And I've always wondered what the keyboard shortcuts using function keys are for, since the letter keys work just as well. But, if I use F4, Inkscape switches to Rectangle tool. The cursor remains in the Width field. However, on the canvas, the mouse is showing the Rectangle tool pointer (and Rectangle tool icon is highlighted, in toolbar). And if I click-drag, it does draw a rectangle, even though the cursor was previously in the Width field!

So maybe that's the answer? Use the function key shortcuts?

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby prkos » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:49 am

MARSZ wrote:Love the 1-key shortcuts in Inkscape.
Wish there was a little command-box to enter stuff, something like, for example:
s lw 1,2 [enter] (set linewidth to 1,2).

Love things like: ctrl-d, ctrl-x, ctrl -> ctrl ->, z, clickclickclick, s, ctrl-v, . , . , ctrl-. .

Like to use the command prompt on me laptop too.
Pining for a Linux laptop instead of Windows.

Also like translate.google.com. ;)


OMG now I want this too. I love keyboard shortcuts and having a special command entering mode (like in text editor Vi) would solve the problem of not having enough key combinations for all the commands.
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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:32 pm

prkos wrote:I love keyboard shortcuts and having a special command entering mode (like in text editor Vi)


Yeah, Vi is great.
Years ago I did a little Linux management.
Still have got a Linux PC in the house.
Dont do much with it.
Lately tried to get Inkscape going on it.
Too much hassle.
Fedora core 6. Old, old, old....

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MARSZ
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 pm

Hi Brynn,

brynn wrote: Like for example, how would you put the cursor in the H or W fields, in Selection tool control bar, without using the mouse?


Cursor movement screen: arrow keys. Click: enter.
;)
But, all those windows, all those fields,... not needed.


brynn wrote:
So maybe that's the answer? Use the function key shortcuts?


Nope, for this specific problem, one stays in the "Width:" field after pressing F1 or F2.


Thanks for thinking !

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Xav » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:13 pm

prkos wrote:
MARSZ wrote:Wish there was a little command-box to enter stuff, something like, for example:
s lw 1,2 [enter] (set linewidth to 1,2).


OMG now I want this too. I love keyboard shortcuts and having a special command entering mode (like in text editor Vi) would solve the problem of not having enough key combinations for all the commands.


The most productive I've ever been with a program was when I used to use the DOS version of AutoCAD. As there were no windows involved, there was no concept of any particular thing having focus. Rather, there was a command box at the bottom of the screen, and everything you did - whether typing, clicking the mouse, or selecting from a menu - resulted in a command being built up bit-by-bit, then executed. It meant you could transparently integrate keypresses and mouse clicks - the software didn't care whether coordinates were typed in by hand, or picked from the canvas.

I wrote about this a while back, so rather than repeat myself too much, if anyone's interested in reading more: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4918&p=46275#p46437
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby prkos » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:58 am

@Xav Thank you for the link and the reminder about how CAD worked.

How do you find Inkscape WRT shortcuts and especially changing focus between different parts of the interface? Could it be improved?

@MARSZ try to install lubuntu on the old machine, or some other linux designed for old-machines. I find that low processor power is the most problematic feature when surfing heavy sites (which describes 99% of the internet nowadays). I don't know how Inkscape would fare, I guess it depends on what kind of drawings you'd work on.
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Xav » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:16 pm

prkos wrote:@Xav Thank you for the link and the reminder about how CAD worked.

How do you find Inkscape WRT shortcuts and especially changing focus between different parts of the interface? Could it be improved?


I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask. In general I'm quite a heavy user of keyboard shortcuts in most programs - except Inkscape! Perhaps it's because the act of drawing is so mouse-heavy anyway that there are no great savings to be made by learning loads of keyboard shortcuts. It's not like I can practically draw a cartoon using the keyboard alone.

I do use some keyboard shortcuts. I'm sure I'll miss some, but these are the most common:

* System-wide shortcuts for cut, copy, paste, delete, undo, save, etc. These don't require learning anything new.
* The space bar for stamping and for toggling to/from selection mode. Unfortunately this hasn't worked properly ever since it was also enabled for panning - the "fix" to this issue has improved things, but it still causes me grief on a regular basis when Inkscape thinks I want to pan not stamp. (I *never* want to pan!)
* Square brackets for rotating
* Ctrl-5 to toggle display mode
* Shortcuts for the boolean operations, as these are something I use a lot
* The arrow keys get used a lot for fine adjustments, or with Shift to move something away temporarily knowing I can move it back to the same place again.

One feature I do miss from AutoCAD is dynamic snapping. I could start drawing a line, then press E to enable snapping to the end of another line, or C for the centre of a circle, T for a tangent point, and so on. Whatever I chose would override the normal snapping options. That meant I could generally leave snapping enabled with sensible defaults (e.g. only to guides), then easily select the specific type of snap I needed for each line, without fear that my attempts to snap to the centre of a circle would accidentally catch the nearby grid line.
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Moini » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:42 pm

Xav, you probably know that there's an option to disable space-bar panning in the preferences. Doesn't it work for you?

Edit: It's in 'Behavior > Scrolling'.
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby Xav » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:46 pm

Moini wrote:Xav, you probably know that there's an option to disable space-bar panning in the preferences. Doesn't it work for you?

Edit: It's in 'Behavior > Scrolling'.


I did, but I'm sure the last time I tried it (in a previous release), it didn't completely fix the problems I was having. I just checked the setting again, and found panning was enabled, so I've turned it off and things certainly do seem better. Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:28 am

Xav wrote:The most productive I've ever been with a program was when I used to use the DOS version of AutoCAD.


Found the Dutch website for AutoCad (AutoDesk).
Interesting, but pfffwuiiiiii... expensive...

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:33 am

prkos wrote:@MARSZ try to install lubuntu on the old machine, or some other linux designed for old-machines. I find that low processor power is the most problematic feature when surfing heavy sites (which describes 99% of the internet nowadays). I don't know how Inkscape would fare, I guess it depends on what kind of drawings you'd work on.


Thans PK !
Didnt know, gonna look into that.

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby brynn » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:47 pm

MARSZ wrote:Hi Brynn,
brynn wrote: Like for example, how would you put the cursor in the H or W fields, in Selection tool control bar, without using the mouse?

Cursor movement screen: arrow keys. Click: enter.

But how do you move the cursor, without using the mouse? The arrow keys don't move the cursor for me -- not in Inkscape. They do in a browser, but not in Inkscape.

MARSZ wrote:
brynn wrote:
So maybe that's the answer? Use the function key shortcuts?

Nope, for this specific problem, one stays in the "Width:" field after pressing F1 or F2.

As I said, the cursor stays in the Width field. But meanwhile, over on the canvas, the mouse pointer has changed to whichever tool you chose using an F key, the tool button is enabled, and it's ready to be used.

The focus may still be in the dialog, but you don't have to click on the canvas, or click on a different tool. The F key already chose the tool, you just have to start using it.

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Re: From submenu to canvas with a key (combination).

Postby MARSZ » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:23 pm

brynn wrote:But how do you move the cursor, without using the mouse? The arrow keys don't move the cursor for me -- not in Inkscape. They do in a browser, but not


Sorry, probably skipped a few communicative steps.
What I meant: it is possible to go to menus without a mouse,
by means of keyboard usage, when it is thus programmed.
But then again: I would rather enter commands than use a (sub)menu.
Not complaining though, Inkscape is fab.
And praise the Lord for all the things one can do in life whithout the need of a mouse.



brynn wrote:
brynn wrote:
So maybe that's the answer? Use the function key shortcuts?


As I said, the cursor stays in the Width field.
But meanwhile, over on the canvas, the mouse pointer has changed to whichever tool you chose using an F key,
the tool button is enabled, and it's ready to be used.

The focus may still be in the dialog, but you don't have to click on the canvas,
or click on a different tool. The F key already chose the tool, you just have to start using it.


Yup, great functional stuff, but not the answer to my prob.
Immediately admitting: there are worse problems on this planet.

Cheerio, M


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